Curse

Arduin · Dec 24, 2009, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman002

but im not american... im an english european....i cant run my game on american servers as they make me lagg to hell...so i have to stay in a server full of gibberish??...i never go to french or german district as i respect that its for them (and i dont understand them lol).

Well, you've seen what Regina responded to your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

That's what I said. The problem is in mentality, massed marketing based on 'hey buy this game, you can be a fag and not understand English at all but you can still play it!' (real-life example, I met a guy who couldn't understand and write in English on a basic level and even had problems with his native language ... 12 y. old kiddo, educational fail) brought loads of players with disrespectful, selfish attitude, more concerned about themselves than putting up their own national pride and using a language everyone else can understand.

I myself find it a must to join AM districts instead, while I still remember times when most of the jerks were on AM districts while ENG ones were like oasis on the desert. Well, I guess times change, the policy of introducing more and more 'local' districts has just taken it's toll on the game itself. It would be much better if everyone just united under a single banner of 'gw player' in districts for everyone instead of isolating in remote 'local' districts.

Also, spare me the wall'o'text in previous post, the entire idea was that the change of mentality changed attitudes of gamers, thus moonspeak, spam and insults on English channels as well as hostile attitude to English-speaking players on local districts became a social norm, while at first such behaviour was considered worth of a report and social stigma accompanying the offender.

As such, the problem isn't about people speaking foreign languages, but people being rude.

If someone is speaking Finnish in EU-English 1, I ignore it, because I can't make heads or tails of it. If someone is speaking rude in Finnish, I wouldn't even know.

If a Finnish player is being rude in English, I'll confront that person on it, and if applicable, send in a report with screens if that person has gone too far in my opinion. That still is the best option.

Alyssaa · Dec 24, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I'm Dutch myself, and I found that most experienced Dutch people have moved to American Districts. Thus 80% dutch people in Europe-English are new to the game.

Don't introduce Dutch Districts, we will probably just go to American to pug.

AmbientMelody · Dec 24, 2009, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

You don't understand the point.

Imagine the following situation:
- The game is localised in Dutch.
- You are American, you only speak English, but can get by playing the game by knowing a little Dutch.
- The districts are: Dutch, French, German.
- You are automatically put into the Dutch district when starting the game.

What do you do? You stop talking to other Americans in English altogether? Don't think so.

Reverse the situation and you know how it is for Dutch people.

You put magical sign 'we are all equal!', while I'm not talking about nationalities but about languages and means of communication in GLOBAL environment.

English is language of globalisation. Confront it with Spanish - Spanish is used by more people natively but it's not a global language.

I assure you, if Chinese was global language, then first foreign language kids would be taught in school - well, it would be chinese!

You stick a magical sign 'hey, stop right there, we are all equal!', while there is no need for it.

If you are Frenchman and speak French on French district, I respect you for that. If I come to your district and you are modest enough to use English to communicate with me in case I don't understand that language or there are other people who don't in the team, I respect you even more.

But, if you just keep talking 'gibberish' no one else understands on purpose, then these are bad manners. Bad manners, because English is a global language, it's even important part of European education. Not knowing English on a basic level and refusing to use it when all else fails is just like having bad manners or lack of any historical and cultural background of the continent you are living in.

Frenchman coming to English district and talking gibberish is not the same as Englishman coming to French district and talking 'gibberish' not understandable only to people without basic education.

It's like that not because English is in any moral way more superior than the French (now that sounded funny), but because English is language of globalisation wide range of people understand and use as a mean of communication, while French is not. It serves practical purpose, nothing else.

You can go to India and speak English, you can go to China and speak English, you can go to Europe and speak English, list goes on! Can you say the same about French? Can you say the same about Dutch? Can you say the same about Polish or Russian?

If you use English to communicate in global environments, it's common modesty. You use most popular mean of communication, you want to make sure everyone understands you and can write back.

Introduction of local districts combined with shrinking community is damaging this game severely, just like introduction of local districts lowered the level of commonly shared and appreciated manners, since having BASIC education was no longer a requirement to participate in the game. Economic-wise, smart move. More customers, more money. Though, like everyone can see it backfired.

I'm not posting this as any kind of disrespect to non-English cultures (heck, I'm not English myself?), it's merely common sense. Everyone should be able to understand what I'm trying to say without taking offense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

Well, you've seen what Regina responded to your post.

As such, the problem isn't about people speaking foreign languages, but people being rude.

If someone is speaking Finnish in EU-English 1, I ignore it, because I can't make heads or tails of it. If someone is speaking rude in Finnish, I wouldn't even know.

If a Finnish player is being rude in English, I'll confront that person on it, and if applicable, send in a report with screens if that person has gone too far in my opinion. That still is the best option.

In cases of own nastiness and bad manners, yes, it's about being rude.

But there is also a problem with socio-cultural structure of the game, it has changed immensely since Prophecies launch. People with lack of understanding of English and unwillingness or lack of means to learn it will only contribute to undermining 'easy communication over everything' spirit. Their somewhat unintended behaviour perceived as ignorant, arrogant and rude (especially on English districts) had also lead to sudden explosion of ignorance & hate towards other groups in general as well ...

Mercesa · Dec 24, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

I think we Dutch folks just can continue talk Dutch I mean really ?

Let's say you go on a vacation let's say.. America then when you talk to your mother, father brother sister etc. In English I think they would be like O_O why are you talking English ? Since when did THAT made sense ?

Dzjudz · Dec 24, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

All that talk of 'hate', 'ignorance' and 'gibberish' is unnecessary.

What it comes down to is this. People from the same country speak with each other in their native language, not in their second or third language. If there is no district for their native language, they will speak their native language in the default district. The status of a language as a global or non-global language doesn't have anything to do with people talking to each other in their native language. Really, you think that if there was no Polish district, Polish people would speak English to each other instead of Polish?

If they want to talk to people from another country they will probably do so in English.

Problem solved?

P.S. (big P.S.)

@ all the people who say, take your non-English to the International District:

What would that solve?? There are only 7 'official' languages in the European districts at the moment. If all other languages went to the international district, 90% of all chat would be unintelligible to the people there!

Or do you really think that all people who don't speak English as their first language understand all other non-English languages?

Enon · Dec 24, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Reverse the situation and you know how it is for Dutch people.

Earlier today I was planning on thanking Regina for assuming Dutch players are better educated than players from Russia, France, Spain and the like. You just destroyed those believes...

If it was up to me, I would just remove all districts besides the American and European English ones. If you're not going to speak English in an International online game (regardless of it's translation) - GTFO.

Dzjudz · Dec 24, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

..... You still don't get the point.

Dutch people speak Dutch to other Dutch people. Polish people speak Polish to other Polish people. French people speak French to other French people. German people speak German to other German people. Italian people speak Italian to other Italian people.

Starting to get it?

Russian people speak Russian to other Russian people. Finnish people speak Finnish to other Finnish people.

Got it now?

Removing districts will not change this.

Read the situation I sketched again and tell me I'm wrong. I'm not. American people will speak English with each other no matter what district they are in. It's only logical.

Removing all districts except Asia-Chinese will not make everyone speak Chinese just like removing all districts except Europe-English will not make everyone speak English.

In fact, removing districts will only make things worse. You think it's bad now with Dutch people speaking Dutch on Europe-English? Imagine adding French, German, Polish, Russian etc to the mix.

Enon · Dec 24, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

..... You still don't get the point.

I didn't bother getting the point, because it's a useless discussion to begin with. Besides, I never once agreed or disagreed with your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Dutch people speak Dutch to other Dutch people.

Oh sod off. There are plenty occasions where I speak English with Dutch people. Obviously it makes me look more sophisticated!

Nechrond · Dec 24, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Usually when people speak Dutch in allspeak, it's a Dutch message from a Dutch person asking Dutch people to join a Dutch guild. If you don't understand the message, then it's not meant for you, so that person just saved you several seconds of valuable reading time by making it unintelligible for you. Be grateful.

Also, Dutch people over 16 who can't speak English at least somewhat decently are retards. Plenty of opportunity to learn the language in the Netherlands.

Arduin · Dec 24, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

Earlier today I was planning on thanking Regina for assuming Dutch players are better educated than players from Russia, France, Spain and the like. You just destroyed those believes...

You base your opinion on one case only? If so, all Germans must be nazi's, all US people must be fat and all Russian player vodka-addicted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

If it was up to me, I would just remove all districts besides the American and European English ones. If you're not going to speak English in an International online game (regardless of it's translation) - GTFO.

Good thing it isn't up to you. Because International online game must mean 'we all talk English', not that it can be played in multiple countries.

Enon · Dec 24, 2009, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Districts don't have anything to do with location anymore.

Dzjudz · Dec 24, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Enon, I didn't get your nationality. You say you speak English to Dutch people, you didn't say you speak English to other Dutch people, so I'll assume that you are not Dutch. In that case, you are true in saying you never bothered to get the point...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

You base your opinion on one case only? If so, all Germans must be nazi's, all US people must be fat and all Russian player vodka-addicted.

In addition, if he bases all Dutch education on me, Dutch education must be quite good (gymnasium, LLB, LLM, TOEFL=610). Personal attacks are bad mkay?

Meridon · Dec 24, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

There are districts for languages that the in-game text is localized in. Because the game is not localized in Dutch, but is localized in Polish and Russian, there are no districts for Dutch, but there are for Polish and Russian. There are no plans to localize the in-game text into Dutch, so it is unlikely that there will be Dutch language districts.

I want my BorK! Bork! Bork! district nao.

Abedeus · Dec 24, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Give them the district, less dutch people = better for the English. I was glad when they put the rest of the Polish people on our districts.

Also do something about Netherlanders.

N1ghtstalker · Dec 24, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

who cares about ppl talking dutch in eu districts lmao
i do it all the time and i don't care bout what ppl think bout it
and there aren't only Dutch people talking Dutch, biggest mistake people make
Belgian people speak natively Dutch too, don't confuse us with them Dutchies pl0x

Dzjudz · Dec 24, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

People more often confuse Dutch people with German (Deutsch) people

.

Lifeshield · Dec 24, 2009, 07:51 PM // 19:51

I go into Europe English districts to speak English, not Dutch, or Belgian, or whatever other language people decide to use in European - English district (the keyword is in the title folks). Sorry you guys don't get your own district but have a bit of consideration for those who don't want their local chat bombarded with foreign chat all day.

It's ok saying go to the US district, they speak English there, but the lag is awful, especially at this time of year with the festival. Neither should I have to go to another district to be able to freely speak to people in english in my own district.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

If all other languages went to the international district, 90% of all chat would be unintelligible to the people there!

You mean like the European - English district is nowadays? Right?

AmbientMelody · Dec 25, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercesa

I think we Dutch folks just can continue talk Dutch I mean really ?

Let's say you go on a vacation let's say.. America then when you talk to your mother, father brother sister etc. In English I think they would be like O_O why are you talking English ? Since when did THAT made sense ?

Global.

GLOBAL environment dude!

@ Dzjudz

It's all connected with what I said earlier. The problem is not native-to-native communication in most of the cases, the problem is with people who isolate themselves in their 'native' districts on purpose and when foreigners visit these districts to form or join teams they are unable to communicate at all without getting insulted or ignored.

Such a thing wasn't a problem when there were very few district kinds and game basically was translated in just 3 or so languages, including official English one. People without understanding of second language (mainly English) simply weren't interested in the game at that stage so majority of them didn't buy the game and didn't create the problem.

Like I said, it all started like a big snowball with Nightfall. We suddenly got loads of people with attitude clearly against speaking in English and I remember a lot of dramas even on English districts. Foreign moonspeak, insults, ignore list, report, change district, repeat.

I couldn't care less about advertisement for guild recruitment in native language in English district (well, that way at least one proves he IS of the said nationality) or some random chit-chat which vanishes as fast as it appeared.

The problem is with people which on purpose or due to lack in education won't communicate with you in most basic English. They are only bold enough to write 'noob', 'stfu', 'f... you' and the like.

With universal EU districts these people would be forced to act in a more friendly manner and adhere to constructive communication code, otherwise they wouldn't find any team and would immediately get a few-days vacation in form of report & ban. These trolls simply couldn't hide in their 'nest' districts like they do now. I tell you, there is no worse place to be in than Kamadan Pol-1 since it's launch.

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 25, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

This was most noticeable on arrogant Polish players (mainly kids I guess?)

No, the Polish are just Europe's equivalent of Brazilians. While there are some respectable Polish gamers online, such as yourself and another guy I know, most of them tend to be patriotic idiots who're obsessed with talking about their country (instead of, you know, the actual game) and are bad at the game itself.

Dawn of War used to be infested with them.

EDIT: Also, people who talk foreign languages in all chat in american districts: go ahead, don't be surprised when we take the piss out of you for it though.

Warvic · Dec 25, 2009, 04:30 AM // 04:30

As a dutchie myself I'm just wondering if Anet can see how much people are playing from certain countries. I know ALOT of dutch players in the game and when I play I always see more dutchies. I think the dutch district will be more full then Polish or Italy. But it's prolly not going to happen, maybe GW2?

And I think they should not add that much districts. EE is kinda dead, german is quite full, french also i think. rest is empty. The problem is that in trade(party search) germans dominate it with their language, now I can understand some words, but it's just anoying.

I think most people go to american districts anyway to sell because they can understand english and because there are more people anyways.

But only an english server would be enough for me. I just want to communicate with everyone using the most common internet language.